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• View topic - The Sobor battle, report

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 Post subject: The Sobor battle, report
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:22 pm
Posts: 658
The Sobor battle was a bloody one with a lot of tactic deployment on both sides, all were great it was a pleasure to fight with or against you

Unfortunately an unexpected event ruined this beautiful battle that would have deserved to finish by declaring a winner for the final screen

Instead an unusual and unexpected internet connectivity problem occurred affecting most players using different providers and belonging to different countries

I am sure it was not a server problem but a connectivity problem (I do not know the cause of it and at which level the problem occurred), the fact is I lost my connection along with most players and was unable to connect with the server by remote desktop, when after several minutes I regained connection with the machine the server was up and some players were still playing and never lost connection. However, at that point the battle was compromised since it was impossible to resume it as several players were disconnected and even if they could rejoin it was not possible to regain the original positions, also some of them left as they thought the game was over. Therefore the battle was terminated, at that point the situation was all sectors under Bluefor control.

The trouble started at 23:22:33 and continued some minutes, at that point we had played more than 2/3 of the match, 1 hour and 24 min, leaving 36 min to the end

For the future a prematurely interrupted match because of circumstances beyond our control will be valid if played for 2/3 of the total time, that is more or equal 80 min, and the situation at the point of premature termination will be taken as final result

We need a meeting of the team leaders or representatives to decide what to do of the current battle, since we did not foresee this situation and the rule was set after the occurrence of the problem

I'm waiting for your response to decide, we can meet in TS in voice tonight

For now, good job everyone and see you in battles!

_________________
Respectfully,

Nemesi,
Chief of Staff
Arma Tactical Combat


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:36 am 
-=GIR=-
-=GIR=-

Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:22 pm
Posts: 57
Hi nemesi!

With this score system, we have the oportunity to captures the zones in the last second, so I think the better is repeat the battle!


regards


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:50 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:32 pm
Posts: 1
with any score system you have that opportunity.. i think it's fair to give to blufor the victory, because most of the match was gone.
This even why, if it may occur another time, what shall we do? will we have to replay every time the whole game??
we can say this match was interrupted by "extremely bad weather condition" and we have to set a retroactive rules for this and incoming match.
Please be fair.
We talked a lot with one of redfore and said was non possibility to change match result at the last.You didn't' have either enough engine o drop ppl to field, this is whta i personally heard.
Just a prayer , try to decide fairly.
thank you


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:19 pm 
-={GGS}=-
-={GGS}=-
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Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:41 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Spain
REDFOR has designated me to expose our decision and comments.
I must say that Nemesi has explained the whole situation with excellent and precise words and we totally agree about taking this "1st" major inconvenient into performing a new rule for the 2/3s of the time gone by to decide the winner.

The reason why we feel it is fair to replay the battle is due to taking in consideration that a massive attack in the last 20 min can decide a battle (please remember UTES) and, after seeing screens of positions of our soldiers right on the limits of the Kabanino blue sectors (not the large exterior markings but the inner sectors) maybe... and I say maybe, we could have taken a sector or two. I have attached a screen where we have 11 people approaching an inner sector and of which 3 were already inside. As you can see this wasn't affected by the vehicles respawning or not as we were already near.


This is a screen only of 1 sector of course and thanks to EDM Guizmo who was one of the Redfor players who lost total connection as many others. At Novy Sobor sector our soldiers were also in the surroundings but I don't have a screen to precisely specify the number of players.

I think that for this just one time and for the great fun we all had last night we should repeat the battle and all ACCEPT Nemesi's new rule if this happens again. If it does, we will NEVER have to decide again no matter how many people were in the sectors. Making corrections now for the good sake of the entire campaign is only a better way for all of us to have more fun as we have been doing during the previous tests.

This is the opinion and proposal of the entire REDFOR faction. We also agreed that if this would have affected the BLUEFOR side we would have decided the same.

Thank you all for the great time we had last night on behalf of the FFC, EDM, 7Cav, GIR and the GGS.

-={GGS}=- DRA (aka WorsT PlayeR EveR)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:22 pm
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Hi all

I think you are taking this matter in the wrong way

The matter is not discussing the possibilities of victory of any of the 2 factions, but a general rule

Since we are at war, if the 2 generals start discussing about their strategy and their possibilities to win the battle I don't expect nothing more that they both will say to the other "You didn't have any posibility!! We would have crushed you all!!), do you honestly expect something else?

So the point is how we treat this matter. As I explained this was not an issue related to the organization, we had no responsibility at all on that

It is like the F1 race, in the case the race is interrupted for something not related to the organization responsibility, example weather conditions the race is suspended and the result is taken as such if more than half the laps are gone (if I remember well). As this is not F1 I thought the rule of 2/3 was better for our situation.

Are you happy with that rule? If YES, we apply this, if NO, we don't, but I do not like the idea to skip just this one situation, why? if a general rule is good is good for now and for the future, nothwithstanding who will benefit or not. I was asking because since the rule was not written before I want everyone be happy with that, we did not foresee that situation and the amendment will be set for sure in the next edition

Of course I would strongly have preferred the match was finished, this trouble ruined this great battle and I'm very sad for that, we were incredibly unlucky!

_________________
Respectfully,

Nemesi,
Chief of Staff
Arma Tactical Combat


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:25 pm 
Comunidad CHS

Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:33 pm
Posts: 9
In any case the match would be done another time, the game was almost ended. I think too much people must accept the result.

F1 is an example, football is another, Motorbikes... in any case the match is repeated. This is an error.

Unfortunately the server hangs, it is fault of nobody, the match will be closed with the result in that time because it has run almost 2/3 of the enterely game.

note: ho picks ajos eat


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:43 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:41 pm
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Location: Spain
In many competitions when a FAIR, NEW and/or MANDATORY requirement must be met after an inconvenient, accident and any other circumstance which calls for a change, the competition itself which has been held is considered NULL, cancelled and/or replayed. Also in many competitions it is resumed at the point where it stopped.

Since we cannot make everyone respawn at their exact location on the map at the time of the crash, this is something we cannot do to continue on for the last 20 min or can this be done? I believe not. Can anyone actually say that we couldn't take 2 sectors in 20 min if the server hadn't crashed? Again I believe not, but neither can we say we would have. So since there is a resonable doubt and we must make this new rule (which we agree upon), is it that difficult to replay the match since we are working towards everything to be great?

To compare F1 (mainly an individual sport) with an online competition where nobody actually gets hurt, I believe is not an appropiate comparrison. Yes, that is how F1 works but we are an online community where we can work around those circumstances.

Mainly everything that ocurred yesterday (from what was mentioned) was due to the "possible slow reading of scripts on the server" (for the respawning of vehicles). That has affected everyone. But also the server crashing is the main reason. Since it is not your direct responsiblity and obviously not ours but has affected everyone... take that in mind. We're not talking about lag related where people get disconnected and come back in. This was a total crash and as discussed many other things must be fixed.

"The matter is not discussing the possibilities of victory of any of the 2 factions, but a general rule"
About the new rule, this is where we all totally agree but as you specify "not discussing the possibilities of victory" I must truely and sadly say that is a bit what you are saying and taking for granted that Bluefor should be the winner.
I don't think it is right to provide a new rule (which is good and necesarry) and use it to ones benefit.
The acceptance of a winner and loser from yesterday is something the Redfor Commanders must decide. That is something I cannot do on my own as a mediator.

Why not consider it NULL, nobody wins/loses and we decide a new battleground? Again, this is my little proposal which I will make to the Redfor commanders and they take it from there and make their decission.

Since the control over a sector is done by number of players and not by points, a strategy meant to be done in the last 10 min (as done on UTES) is possible correct? Neither faction had that opportunity last night since we lost the last 20 min.

To accept a result which not is verified and has not been submitted to a rule which now doesn't exist I don't think is correct. If the new rule is approved it should be put in effect for future situations as the one last night. Like I said before, using it now to the benefit of one side is not appropiate. Using the rule like this I think many people will feel cheated and that will be the start of the falling apart of the campaign. Many people are more worried about the other failures in the game (respawn articles, weapons, etc.) which are going to continue ruining the game.
Maybe a lot less scripts will fix the problems.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:49 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:58 pm 
-=GIR=-
-=GIR=-

Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:59 pm
Posts: 2
Rules can´t be applied in retrospective.

What about if instead 2/3 the rule is 1/5?. Then following the rule the game must be played again. I accept the rule but if this happens from now on, not affecting the last match. Not because, we dont want to accept the result, is just because its not fair put a rule and affect past problems with it.

The server crashed, but we a had problems with combat helicopters and transport helicopters too. And maybe this issue effected the result too ( in both factions).

The match was not played in optimal conditions and with the result of a crash ( and no one can say why... overload, system reboot, or thousand of posible issues, caused by organization (without intention) or not).

Its not just why we deserve win or not, is just, organization MUST watch after fairplay and after all system works fine, and if they fail and its a problem out of organization control, look for the best solution. Any solution that leaves one team without oportunity to present combat in good conditions is not a good solution.

Its nearly impossible to recreate the last 20 minutes of battle because no one will now exactly how much effectives of each faction was in the area, and dont play the game, leaves red faction without the opportunity to win the match or at least some objetives. I think the best solution is to avoid this combat and redfor mantain initiative in sobor or anothe zone.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:16 pm 
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